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[dougirwin13]

To: admin
Subject: Compsand Community: compsand as a environmently friendly surfboard
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011
From: Billy

This is an enquiry e-mail via http://compsand.com/ from:
billy

Hey,
I see compsands marketed as "green" surfboards, some times. For example, Danny Hess markets his boards this way.

But Couldn't the argument be made that they are not any more green than your average PU surfboard. I mean, they use everything a foam board uses, plus more resources, because of the skin material. They may use less glass, but they use more resin. So I don't think they are better for the environment, except for the fact that they are a hell of a lot more durable.

What do you say?

[dougirwin13]

My response...

Hi Billy!

It's probably more correct to say that some compsands are "greener" than others and than PU/PE boards.

EPS is a far friendlier foam to produce (far less toxic and far fewer petrochemicals) and can even be made from a high percentage of recycled foam.  Epoxy is also far friendlier to produce than tradtiional resin for the same reasons.  You can also get epoxies that are made from carbohydrates!  On top of that I know a few guys who are experimenting with greener and entirely green glass alternatives, such as bamboo fibre.

Because the wet-out procedure for glass with resin is by weight and around 1:1 typically there's a lot less resin used too.  Wooden skins can be made from renewable resourcs too. 

Now if you want to talk energy consts in construction yes a composite board does use more juice to make.  But this is relative and you need to consider again the huge amount of petrochemicals consumed and their byproducts in the production of PU/PE board components.

And on top of this they are often a hell of a lot more durable!

Cheers!

-doug

Plus a link to this thread.

Anything anyone would like to add?

[huie]

 ;Ddoug funny question    i do like my polys

 but a good  compsand can be built without any material from the surfboard industry
as a matter of fact i have just done one no glass at all


   billy do your homework


            cheers huie

[poser516]

http://www.surfscience.com/topics/surfboard-design-and-anatomy/materials/surfboard-foam

http://temp.wetsandsurfshop.com/swellwatch/article.asp?locationid=2&resourceid=9099&ProdId=0&CatId=1442&TabID=1442&SubTabID=0



read the above articles, especially the wetsand article.

foam is terrible for the environment, period.

eps foam is terrible, poly foam is terrible.  It's a petroleum product that never biodegrades and kills animals when eaten.  I'm not complaining, I"m just saying that the idea of a surfboard with foam in it being marketed as a green product is a sham.  It's awesome how light and strong a compsand is. and there is no other way to get a surfboard that light and strong.  COmpsand is king in that respect.  But it's still got foam, and it's not green.

[dougirwin13]

Interesting...

Most experts in the field would say "take a very long time to biodegrade", not "never biodegrade".  And yes that is true about both foams.

But that doens't make them the same.  And it doesn't mean that both have the same environmental impact. 

For example post-production EPS has no toxicity, the main helath issue associated with it is flammability.  That said a number of chemicals used in it's manufacture are toxic - most notable Benzene.  However very close to 100% of these chemicals are either rendered irreversibly inert or extracted and recycled back in to the production process.

Post-process polyurethane is also fully inert.  Where it differs significantly from polystyrene is in decomposition. Decomposition can produce isocyanates, carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, and hydrogen cyanide.  A pretty nasty cocktail of chemicals goes into PU production, including aromatic isocyanates, benzene, various polyols, various chain extenders and cross linkers, catlysts (including lead and mercury) and surfactants.  Many of the byproducts are active chemicals, including things like hydrogen cyanide, that cannot be reused in the raw manufacture process.

Burning EPS might be unpleasant, but burning PU can outright kill you!

EPS can be recycled into the production process quite a lot, I believe up to 90% of a foam block can consist of recycled foam.  PU foam cannot be recycled back into PU foam production.

EPS production isn't perfect, but it's somewhat kinder to the environment than PU production.

You see, sometimes "being green" means "taking the greenest choice you actually can".


And finally... Compsands can be easily implemented using alternative cores.  Inluding the new cradle-to-grave inert "foams" like mycobond or biorene.  I'd love to hear from anyone who's trialed any of these new foams!


Cheers!

[paul cannon]

anyone ever thought of using grass stuffing instead of foam
why dont we do some research and list some alternatives
wool
ricebubbles
grass
seeds
air
popcorn
these are serious btw