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[elewis]

http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=393289;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

Hopefully the link works.  I am sure most of you saw this on Swaylocks, but in case you did not.  I went to a Seminar in which Greg Loehr spoke about a month after Clark shut down and I got a lot of great info.

[Dave_D]

I was given one of the first batch of the Warvel perimeter stringer blanks to try out about two years back.  What I made from it was not a compsand.  Did use some neat glass on it that Greg recommended which was "Impact Glass" from Graphite Master.  Absolutely bulletproof and performed very well.  There are some pics of it on Sways.  What I am wondering is when vacuuming skins like in the Sways thread is what the flex will be.  I have been measuring the flex of the boards I build with a target of somewhere near the flex of a pro weight poly.  Similar to the Coil stringerless boards.  The WMD board with perimeter stringers and a normal glass job was pretty stiff.  Seems to me that with the box beam effect of the veneers over the stringers is going to be ultra stiff.  Also the stiffness would be increased by the fact that the foam on the perimeter of the board is 5# density.  I think you would get much better flex with the traditional Compsand with the timber out on the actual perimeter of the board.  I'm not bashing the tech as it will be great for the first time vacuum bagger.  Just seems like this should be a good topic for discussion.

[Kit Sidwell]

Hard to say what the flex would be without making one.... thats still the only real way to tell unfortunately.
So many variables, not just the materials but the construction techniques a person uses play a huge part.

At a guess -
The skins are super thin, so that allows flex - except bamboo is renowned for being stiff.
The rails being 5# density is no problem, I use Paulownia, which I guess you could say is about 16# density!
The core is 1.5# but that shouldn't offset the other two things too much.

I think it will make a valid board, it should flex - remember that overall surfboard thickness and foil distribution is key, regardless of materials.
Its definitely an easy build, and great for people who want to make a simple board that gets a lot of the composite sandwich/perimeter stringer benefits.

On the down side, the blank doesn't give you much freedom.
It requires such thin skins, or it will turn out heavy and stiff.
While it is sandwich construction, i've found that playing with skin thickness is one of the key factors for durability and performance. 1/42" veneer doesn't give you that.

Also, i'd guess that a veneer that thin would vac down pretty wavey.....
It's pretty much impossible to finish an EPS blanks so perfectly that your veneer presses to it in a perfectly smooth panel.
Thicker skins give you a much truer surface, and you have some room to fair them out just a hair to get a perfect finish.
Obviously this only matters if you're making commercial quality/showroom boards.
Trying to get something that looks the full money would be hard with that veneer.
And you don't want to be using the hotcoat to fair out those lumps!! too much weight, and not a good method.

Other than that, Greg has a good package there!
Definitely cuts down on the hassle, with only a few compromises.

[huie]

you can do it allwith
                                      composite duel density
                                   the ultimate blank

[paul cannon]

looks fckin unreal
waiting for delivery 

[afoaf]

I think the wooden stringer, considering the "Perimeter stringer buckling" thread is overkill, especially
for our purposes. Further, the cost is pretty high for the blanks and you are presently limited on the
shapes you can make.

That being said, I believe that this clearly reinforces what Paul and Huie have been doing lately with
regard to foam rails/skins and dual density blanks.

It's gotten me thinking about a couple options given the materials I can get my hands on...fortunately
Ken has a lot of the main ingredients so while I may not buy the full Warvel blank, I'll get the individual
ingredients from him to DIY anywho.

[Ian]

I looked at one of the Warvel blanks this weekend, neat stuff.
I think the boo skins + perimeter stringers are going to lock it into a supper stiff board.
Way overkill!! This is green fashion at best.
Take away the  Perimeter stringer and you have a Gary Young board

[afoaf]

you mean "The Father of Compsand"...

did they call you yet, btw?

[Sparrow]

gary young doesn't use much fibreglass on his boards, only a small amount down the length of the rails. The bamboo is the predominant fibre in gary's construction

[paul cannon]

can you guys get a hold of rohacell
that where id be looking for deck and rails
ive been getting a bit better at glassing and will try some opaques to cover the airex
like speedneedles boards
i really do think a lot of people over complicate things
thats where gregs method will go well
it is simple

[Dave_D]

If you can find it Rohacell is some really good stuff.  Don Bowers and Ted James at Hatteras, NC used to make windsurfers with it.  It was very white so they were able to do air sprays on it.  Not too sure that it is what is on ST Tl2's or an equivalent.

dd

[afoaf]

it's really rather upsetting how difficult it is to get foam materials in the Los Angeles area.

I think I must just not be looking in the right places.

[huie]

 yea rohacell

                   71  i g f   is the fine grade

                    if you in oz you can get it from me
         when i get the next shipment.
you can also get  the cdd blank.

[paul cannon]

huie can you cut a few sheets for me and send with my blanks

[soulvoid]

gary young doesn't use much fibreglass on his boards, only a small amount down the length of the rails. The bamboo is the predominant fibre in gary's construction

This does not make any sense, unless the load on the board sandwich is never stressed to the point where skin fail anyway. I've been playing with graphing the stiffness of sandwich panels in scilab and the things that strikes me is how little strength the laminate have vs. the strength of a sandwich at the thickness Greg is using. Basically with the layups used and thin skins there is very little load on the core. Even with the relatively stiff bamboo core and only 2oz cloth both sides, the bamboo core by it self would be considerably less than half the strength of the sandwich.