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[soulvoid]

Is it just me or does the new, modern, faster to build, wmd, cdd, whatever, look ugly compared to the good old fasioned compsands all covered in wood? No offense to those building those, but after looking at a few of these lately...:






None of these really appeal to me, the white rails really pops in your face, I don't care how much you gloss and polish it, the rails are still white and the airex is still green. I could add the firewires and the new sunovas to the list too. Ok, so there is nothing stopping you from doing a paint job on top of it, but then what set's it apart from the look of the average PU/PE board on the racks?

Then Josh posts this...

[paul cannon]

ill do a PJ hollow wood if someone will pay for it
point is they have do be done in under 7 hours to be profitable
otherwize may well do PU
i can get the same money for a machine shaped pU as i can an airex balsa combo
i have the wood and jigs to do a classic looking board tho
i will make any board in any materials if the customer will pay for it
that said, some guys want a wall hanger and some guys want light and durable
i personally dont care what i ride as long as it floats
surfers really are absolute fcks to do business with btw
never pay on time always change there mine and always want a discount

[paul cannon]

kits got a shorboard (looks like joshs) brand new on trademe for 400 dollars NZ
well why bother
hed get that for a pu that takes a 1/2 the time
boards have to be white
this is what the market demands
thats why the cdd will be the next big thing on the goldy and eventually worldwide

[paul cannon]

the beauty of cdd is that its simply a better core then anyone elses
it can be used in a full on woody with wood rails, without vents and a lighter more water tight core

[speedneedle]

I've considered all the same issues with cosmetics... Yeah, the bamboo and white rails loses something.

I'm going top-shelf with woodies, but variations of it for price levels. The tooling expense for  a "real" compsand can transfer to ready equipment for GL's type, just veneers, whatever...even bending a new rocker in a poly.

I'm not into stop-watching the build time on compsands...to me its not the issue. And the whole point is that a woody takes longer...that is part of the allure for a customer, not to be saying  "Oh yeah this one did'nt take any longer than that costco pop-out" while simultaneously asking over a $1000 for it.

I can run off and shape a poly or fix dings while something cures, until I get enough orders going to set up a routine.

I just don't see the point boasting speed of production. I know - I KNOW there are ALWAYS blow-outs. Anybody's call on benchmark times are only an ideal and they never actually happen.

Its done doing whatever it takes.

[Kit Sidwell]

Sorry Josh, I gotta disagree with ya...
Speed of build is everything with these boards.
Speed to build one properly of course, I don't mean cutting corners.

Yeah I understand that people like the romance of a handcrafted wooden masterpiece, but thats no reason to do things slowly.

There was that "Do shapers rip themseves off" thread on sways recently, I didn't really get too involved.
But the whole point is, if you can make a perfect board you're in business.
If you can make a perfect board in half the time, then your actually making money.

I have a feeling that your idea of a slow, "taking it easy" build time would be lightning fast by most peoples standards.
We both have secrets that allows factory production to not only be viable, but profitable.
And i'm not talking pop-outs, pure custom only.

Build times are quoted under ideal conditions, usually they take longer of course!
But if you have a factory, and are employing a few people who are of lesser skill than yourself, then simpifying the process and speeding things up is essential to ensure that productivity is high enough - you need to achieve those build times with general labourers.

Basically what i'm saying is that being able to build these things fast is not a crime!
It allows you to have a competitve edge, and the privilege of have all the guys on Sways hating you because you are undercutting them by working smarter.

[Kit Sidwell]

oh yeah,
To address your initial comment Haavard -

I personally don't like the look of bamboo, especially top and bottom with white rails.
But I may come round to it.
If I was to do a board WMD style, it would be a veneer with interesting grain.
As I keep saying, it's a perfectly valid way of making a board, but too many restrictions, you have to use a 1/40" veneer or it doesn't work.

But, I absolutely love the look of Huies blank with a balsa bottom.
And i'm not just saying that because he's one of the compsand crew, I truely do!
I still have a soft spot for a bright white poly, I havn't forgotten what I started out on.
To me, Huies blank combines the two looks perfectly.
Then theres the performance and adaptability aspects, which he's explained to me in detail over the phone, but I probably gotta keep quiet about for now.
Lets just say that this blank is a transformer, theres more than meets the eye.
Hows that Huie, sounds like i'm giving the hard sell here eh!
Joking aside, this blank lets you do a helluva lot of different stuff with just the standard blank, let alone varying the blanks properties, which Huie may fill us all in about later.

Haavard, I'm finding it hard to sell boards over ebay (TradeMe) that have the wood look...
People don't know what they are here in NZ, it's only when they see them in person that they realise!
So having a white deck and rails is a great bridge between the two technologies in terms of visual appeal, with absoloutely no compromise on performance.
I think I could sell these things like hotcakes over here

[peteuk]

hi , i really like the look of the wood , balsa or veneer but to most people, surfers in general are just not clued up to what is going on in the board world they just look like some old fashioned quiant board, when i try to explain ,twice as much glass ,epoxy ,vacuum i can see their eyes glaze over , the board is  really light so that equals light glass job so it possibly can/t be strong,

if the mainstream industry are/nt making wood performance boards they can/t be as good  as a poly board .thats the reaction i generally get but at the same time they moan about how their board is falling to bits,

i think this is where firewire has scored, its just does/nt look that far away from a white poly ,

i am making a board at the moment ,1 lb core ,5.5 lb 3mm white hd foam . it will have carbon rails and the  fin plug surounds are carbon , the people who have seen it so far all want to try it out , really keen , i think because its white and also the carbon equals performance ,

funny people surfers!

[huie]

harvard its not long ago you were nigling away at me about building wooden composites\
well funny that.    it was the neeed for a better core for my wooden boards that led to the C D D blank
 & that would have been fine  but bloody thing  has captured everyone that has touched it
 so we will see where it goes    CDD woody coming soon.
  about the all wood trip

     in the early eightys i bought many  cubic mtrs of logs  (cederella) planted in the 1920s  west of noosa
had them sawn into flitches at the dagan sawmill operating for over 100 yrs
what i had left over the yrs i brought to the island
from these flitches i bandsaw&machine my veener for my skins


                                      now thats true core
but i still love to work whith new mediums     including boardcad   haaaaaaaa
                 wood is good

[soulvoid]

ill do a PJ hollow wood if someone will pay for it
point is they have do be done in under 7 hours to be profitable
otherwize may well do PU
i can get the same money for a machine shaped pU as i can an airex balsa combo

My comment was about the looks. Sure, there are other advantages with the new tech in build time, maybe performance too, and getting rid of the wood will reduce problems with water intrusion.

Some shapers get $1000(or more) for a PU. Most of the compsand crew will most likely never be able to charge that for their boards, not without a name. So much for the tech... If you do have a name (and the tech?) I guess you can charge whatever you want. I was quoted about 11000NOK which would be more like NZ$3000 for a sunova longboard incl. shipping but without taxes... (more like NZ$4000 with taxes...)

Unless you charge far more for a compsand compared to regular PU/PE it will be less profitable. 6' PU with sanded finish would be about $100-150 and about 3 hour work? Compsand $200-250 in material and about 7-10 hours work? Unless you charge twice as much as a PU, the PU will be more profitable.

If you want to charge more for a compsand, you'd better make sure that the client understands why he's paying more. Unless the board looks great, the customer better know that he wants the tech.

I must say that of the new tech I think CDD has the greatest chance of success as it fits in the existing pipeline of any PU/PE board building factory.

[paul cannon]

they seem to take the same hands on time although turnarounds are a lot faster
similar material cost
but machined shaped poly knocks off an hour or so

[jeff matsuno]

Do any of you know Chris Garrett?  His woodies are truly beautiful.  I'm sure he's using veneer sheets.  It looks like he wraps the rail with veneer ala surftech and Gary Young, although in some you can see the wood bands.  Jack Johnson is riding one in "Brokedown Melody."

www.chrisgarrettshapes.com.au

I'm thinking of trying veneer for my next build, but probably with good old fashioned balsa rails.

[soulvoid]

they seem to take the same hands on time although turnarounds are a lot faster
similar material cost

If you make your own blank I guess it equals out a bit, but then again that's extra time spent. If you buy a good EPS blank it seems to cost the same or more than a PU blank. I wonder how the CDD will be priced. Then you get the added cost of the skins, rails, reinforcements, additional layers of glass with 3 layers on PU, atleast 4 on compsand with one layer under one over for each skin.

Still, there has to be extra time involved. A PU blank you shape, sand and glass. A compsand you have to glue up rails and vacuum bag on skins in addition which takes some time to prep. To get the showroom finish you must most likely sand it very well both before and after vacuum bagging. In a production environment I would actually expect 3 hours pr. board for a PU, one hour for shaping (or machine shape...), one hour glass, hotcoat and setting fins, one hour sanding...

I'm sorry Huie if I come across as 'niggling away' on you (had too google that expression), I guess I'm asking way too many questions...

Pete,

I'll take white skins over Airex anyday. What brand of foam is that and where did you get it?

Bdw. It would be interesting with a highly moderated thread with supplier information for compsand boards.

[Kapuna]

I don't think the new WMD tech is a threat to quality Compsand construction as Bert Burger got most here aspiring towards.

Keep working to make the best Compsand and don't sacrifice.

Speedneedle's got it right!

[peteuk]

hi soulvoid, the white foam is a pu foam that homeblown here in the uk produce its just a higher density 5.5 lb version of their normal blank foam , they produce it in big blocks 600mm x2400mm and you can have it cut to whatever thickness you want , the minimum is 3mm and that is what i have ,

it sucks a bit of resin but the skinned blank at the moment weighs 3 lb , so with the outside glass and fins it should come out around 6 lb or so , it might snap first time out ,its just an experiament at the moment,
homeblown make blanks in san deigo so they might do the high density foam there as well ,

a sheet of it will roll up into a tight tube ,so it could be sent through the post quite easily,  pete