jeez no one wants to talk

barry
was raised right
by his grandparents
who "hanai'd" him
like alot of local families do

he knows aloha
he knows the prejudice of being "popolo"

he also knows what its like
to have folks from
different cultures
and different classes
work togethor (Lokahi) for a common goal

He body surfs so he understands
the power of the ocean and its currents
more intimately
than a standup surfer ever can

all good principles to apply to daily life

just like living frugally within your means
and working hard to make something of yourself
letting your talent do your talking
rather than the benefits of privilage

the corruption of DC power
and the monsters than hide there
are his biggest enemy

its not the tasks or challenges ahead
he'll motivate the rest of us to take care of those things
for each other
whether the world follows
is another question

we'll just have to see
how he holds up with his 'tutu's" guidance
or whether she gave him enough strength
to persevere
when she was here.

gary young doesn't use much fibreglass on his boards, only a small amount down the length of the rails. The bamboo is the predominant fibre in gary's construction

This does not make any sense, unless the load on the board sandwich is never stressed to the point where skin fail anyway. I've been playing with graphing the stiffness of sandwich panels in scilab and the things that strikes me is how little strength the laminate have vs. the strength of a sandwich at the thickness Greg is using. Basically with the layups used and thin skins there is very little load on the core. Even with the relatively stiff bamboo core and only 2oz cloth both sides, the bamboo core by it self would be considerably less than half the strength of the sandwich.

I'm just going on what the man himself told me!

Still, it doesn't make any sense 

Gary uses multiple layers of "Epoxy Saturated" bamboo veneer inplace of fiberglass.. He calls it "fibergrass".
Epoxy saturation interacts with bamboo veneer for a covering that's as strong if not stronger than the man made fabric which is basically woven flexible glass(silica) fibers. He also uses many layers not just one or two and varies the amount of layers depending on their location on the board's structure. I posted a cutaway picture of Gary's composite technique away back than Paul said was not good to show you all.. Alot of technique all in one picture.  There's also a bulletproof/hurricane resistant film he applies to the finished surface for added protection. If you think of what it does for storm proofing glass windows and bulletproofing glass car windows you can see the benefits for the epoxied bamboo skin of a surfcraft.. Surprised no one has thought of that before.

Huie and Loehr are just getting the composite process closer to the needs of a production operation without losing any benefits of the composite design. Loehr has deep ties to Warvel(who he brought in to Firewire to Bert's protest) and Resin Research which is why Paul is trying to wipe some of the fog off everyone's goggles here. I guess Greg's due some reward for all the years he's put in to the tech.
 
Huie I found this stuff called "Last-a-Foam" 6lb density and way cheaper than corecell with a similar texture. Is that it or is it Rohacell which is notoriously expensive being that it's used for yahts, planes and F1 racers.

picked up a sheet Friday from Fiberglass Hawaii
Alittle expensive at $40 for a 1"x2'x8' panel compared to $17 for a 1"x2'x8' panel of blue dow
But it's 6lb density and has the same texture and flex as expensive corecel.
gonna give it a try as rail material.
it might be a good compromise

I'm also working with Ken at Segway to get some 2lb blanks with no stringers and some of the Warvel PU foam which runs about the same price as the last-a-foam stuff not including the expensive shipping costs to hawaii.

Been think of doing a video of our "cook your hootch in a home made still" approach to building boards for those adventure some spirits who want to make boards with off the shelf retail supplies throwing in the new rail and skin technique now trademarked "timberflex" and "compsand". I understand the need for them but it feels funny that I have to worry about something like that.

Anyway
anyone know anything about this last-a-foam stuff?
Its alot more flexible that I would've thought

Oh yea
I'm going to cut rail band strips of the woven or flat bamboo veneer and use that as the perimeter stringer versus 1/8" inch balsa or cedar. Bottom will be woven bamboo mat top with be flat cut bamboo veneer over Lowes 0.75lb EPS or blue dow

Sticky tape hasn't a snowball in hell's chance of getting anywhere near the tension I'm using.

That's the problem in a nutshell

sewing up and entire board like that sounds mind boggling
I don't think vacuum bagging solves that stretching problem

I love sanding the cloth cause it doesn't give me a skin rash for weeks like fiberglass does and it is way more flexible while being strong which makes sense for a wood skinned foam board.

Two things,
I also have a sample, they have been very generous and given me enough to do a shortboard.
Anyhow, on my test piece with RR epoxy, the laminate ended up vey opaque, even with a sanding coat.  The main reason that I haven't  taken it any further.
Also, whilst I admire anyone trying to make 'greener' materials available to us, I fail to see how you can apply a patent to a process using double sided carpet tape to hold the cloth in tension?
Roys laminate looks much clearer than mine, what resin you using Roy?

we've had the same results
I even went and bought some super expensive super flowing urethane resin from Resinx to see if it made a difference and just I wasted one of my griffin custom shapes in the process.
the key is getting the fabric pulled as tight as possible and it looks like roy may have solved the issue by sewing his cloth tight with thread.
maybe that's the way to do it outside of bagging the lam.
maybe you can use some waxed floss to sew the lam tight before glassing versus using the double stick tape routine.
Brian apparantly has it down and I've watched the DVDs over and over again and we still can't figure out what we are doing wrong. We actually pull with two people opposite of each other but we're just not getting it tight enough to prevent the opaqueness and lifting of the cloth when soaked..

makes better underwear and sleepwear.. really cool and comfortable
4 boards
we haven't figure it out yet
I don't think we got the stretching and double stick tape thing down pat yet
it needs to be really tight or it lifts or soaks up gobs and gobs or resin

from Tree2Sea website:

Simple



Complex

Thanks Huie, Bernhardt, and everyone else. 

you guys can PM if you need something I can't publically offer you.

OK, So I know I had some tasks on my to do list here.

I've heard back from the bamboo supplier.

The 4' x 8' sheets of 1/8" flat grain is $76 USD per sheet.   
They also have an unadvertised two-ply veneer (1/21" or 1.2mm) he's getting me the price on that.
 
Also, they stopped carrying the sheet because they were getting too many returns as it is very brittle.
They had 4 sheets left at the local warehouse and I got a chance to look/touch it.
It's very nice but as he said, very brittle. i.e. you can split the strips apart very easily by hand.
The 1/8" is also quite heavy @ 16# per sheet. If I figure the rough numbers correctly that would bring the skins for a 6'6" fish out to 12# just for the skin.
I talked with Bob Mitzven this morning @ Tourmaline. He had his Western Red Cedar chambered fish (5' 10" I think). He says it's 14#, which felt about right.
Not much advantage to the 1/8" bamboo skinned compsand weight wise.

I'll cross post this to my Fishy thread and put all further info/questions there.

You can build a cedar/paulownia hollow in either in Paul Jensen's, Roy Stewart's or Rick Blundell's method using only handtools. You can glass it with Bamboo cloth or just hand rub and seal the exterior with oil.
No foam no fiberglass just glue and sealers and those can be biobased as well.

As Eva the Boardlady once said if an engineer was inventing a surfboard he would've made the core out of air.

Just something to think about as your mind goes green

as there are others ways to get there using just wood and not having to core out and waste big thick planks..

Like Roy's often said, all you need is a 1000 little pieces of wood to make one of his creations.

Hi everyone, I first want to say what a blessing this forum is. I shape my own boards and glass for aftanas boards in vancouver Island. I introduced myself on the Hi thread already. well I want to take the step into compsands. I have been researching on here and sways. i still havn't put everything together yet. I was wondering if we could make a thread to explain all the steps. I am sure its probably out there I just suck at the search function. sorry if I am wasting anyones time i am a newb to the compsand world, but want to take my boards to the next level.
Thanks again for this great site!

There's a VHS video that was made many years ago by Victoria Video Productions in your area called "Vacuum Bag Board Building with Tom Sullivan"  It was designed with sailboards in mind but has everything you ever wanted to know about vacuum forming a composite structure using an EPS core and high density foam skins with epoxy. It's a least 10-15 years old or more by now but shows you all the basic steps on how to do one of these.  The only construction difference since then was the introduction of solid perimeter rails and wood skins by Bert Burger in 2004 on Swaylocks. Other than that it's mostly been design changes of the shape to match the materials..

I ws lucky to get a copy many years ago and I feel it's still the best media resource for a beginning compsander. Try and see if you can find a copy in BC. Fiberglass Supply used to sell it many years ago..

I see this stuff getting used more and more frequently by what seem like the regular public.. wondering where everyone was getting this stuff?

Fiberglass Hawaii
Corecell is expensive

I just got a couple of 2'x8' 1" blue dow sheets from FGH at for $16 each We're using those for rails. I'd prefer corecell but its like $175 for a 4' x 8' x 0.5" panel no wonder it's gold colored

i was thinking of inventing a new troll for here so you guys dont get bored
so you can argue and sing laurels of the power of compsand 

hey speedy email me bro

Believe me
I'd love to me that crazy guy over there in person one day..
sometimes I wonder if it's Bill just stirring up things to have laugh.
I wouldn't put it by him..

see bernie
i am full of shit

top hat..
remember that one..

at least you still have your eye

and good for you
that simon gave you a ring

we'll be gathering at waikiki this sunday
told them I'd bring some of my compo's
even jarrod's and CMP's stuff to peruse.

I might in your part of the world next year..

Take a listen to Paul

http://www.grainsurf.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=804

So far I think Simon has interviewed Ben, Roy, Gary Young and others.

Yo Compsand crew...
Josh

Welcome Josh!
Forget about those guys over there...
I doubt if 70% of them have yet to make anything much yet a compsand.

Can't wait to see what you got coming out of your skunkworks
There's definitely some interesting things go on with the crew here
alot better to be a smaller operation nowadays anyway..
zero overhead is the key for surviving the times.